Present or represented federations :
- Netherlands : Bernd Huijser (BH)
- Luxembourg : Jean Peters (JP)
- Germany : Kurt Fischer (KF) and Sebastian Heuft (SH)
- Austria : Ferdinand Viertlmayr (FV)
- Spain : Ismaël Rodrigo (IR) and Sook-Hwa Noh (SN)
- Hungary : Sandor Janos (SJ)
- Great Britain: Michael Farrar (MF)
- Switzerland : Edith Zimmermann (EZ) and Bernadette Durig (BD)
- Ireland : Pat Gallagher (PG) and Colm O’keeffe (COk)
- Italy : Andrea Contini (AC) and Sergio Rosso (SR)
- Sweden : Eirik Isene (EI)
- France : Paul Réthoré (PR) , Louis Cotard (LC) and Dominique Dufour (DD)
Belgium was excused.
Four people of the Central Committee of the INF-FNI attended this meeting: Sieglinde Ivo (SI) president; George Volak (GV) vice-president; Roger Viola (RV) officer of Sport and Leisure and Mick Ayers (PR officer)
The debates were translated into German, English and French by Charles Obergfell (CO) and Michel Le Portoux (MLP)
Friday, May 22nd 2009:
Opening of meeting by Paul Réthoré (FFN President) who declared:
“Hello to all,
We will begin the debates of the 34th Interfederal Meeting of the European Federations, which, this year, concerns all the European Federations.
12 federations answered to the invitation.
We are very happy to welcome you all, also Sieglinde, the very new President of the INF-FNI, George Volak, vice-president, Roger Viola, sports and leisures officer and Mick Ayers, in charge of the communication for Europe.
I am also happy to have on our side Charles Obergfell, honorary president of the INF-FNI, who accepted to be our translator for our German-speaking friends. On your behalf, I thank Michel Le Portoux, member of the group “For a planet in good health” who accepted to carry out the English language translations.
With Louis Cotard, the general secretary of the FFN, and Dominique Dufour, associated treasurer, we will make our best to communicate the positions of France.
Concerning the role of the European Federations (even international), we think that two poles of actions have to coexist:
• Actions for leisure. (sports, youth meetings, family meetings, etc…)
• Basic actions for the future of the naturist movement (a common law for naturism, which place for naked hiking, a respectful life on the naturist beaches, actions in favour of the health of our planet) for which the pooling among the federations is capital.
It is essential that these actions are shared in order that the naturists Europe will be present near the decision makers and that the human being takes the central position of the decisions.
I do not want to lengthen more this introduction to leave the most possible place for the discussions”.
Sieglinde speaks in her turn:
First of all, I would like to greet you all very cordially at this International Meeting. I am happy that you took time to participate in this important meeting and I would like to thank our friends of France for their invitation.
Last year, when I left the Congress in Brazil, I had not only carried from there a great quantity of memories in my luggage, but also many ideas about the way in which my function of president of the INF-FNI would proceed during the next months.
We had discussed, still in Brazil during a CC meeting, about the tasks and solutions to the problems that you had submitted to us at the Congress and it was for us in no way a problem to work immediately. However, for the correct realization of a work, we need to have the necessary information, the means of help, etc. because, dear friends, with air we can certainly live, but not work.
So, the first letter requesting your co-operation was sent to all the federations, with as result that one part of the e-mails came back, either because the mail box was full, or because the e-mail address was not correct.
Then George began at first to work to check all the e-mails of the last weeks, to see whether somebody had announced a change of address of which we would not have seen. Nothing. we are quite simply not informed of the changes of address. A pity, at finally, because of this fact, some important information partly do not reach you at all or then with much delay. But he would not be George if he had not succeeded in very short time to reactualise all the addresses, but a pity for the waste of time caused by this work. (All the same, “thank you George”).
Therefore, once again, all the process – e-mails to all the federations with the request of information in order to finally be able to begin the work. How many times asked we information by e-mail without obtaining any reply, or then only by one small part of the federations. The communication functions very well between some federations, but what about the other ones?
Deeply, I am somewhat disappointed of this result, because I had really thought that the continuity of existence, not only of the INF-FNI, but also of each federation, held us much on heart. Moreover, on each congress it is required in a vehement way that the INF-FNI achieves much more for the federations, but if nothing comes from your side, from where do you want that the necessary information arrives to us?
How can we work in a productive way? Whereas approximately only 5% of the e-mails are followed by answers.
Dear friends, for me and also for the CC of the INF-FNI, it is not sufficient for a productive collaboration.
That is why I request once again all the present delegates and your collaborators on your premise, to place at our disposal the requested information, because it is only in this way that we can guarantee to you that our work can be productive and efficient for you all.
And that we did not sleep in spite of all during the last months, George, Mick and Roger will give you a report in their speeches.”
First comments about the agenda:
Ireland (PG): we have sent 3 mails without success to the FFN to mention a question on the agenda. This question concerned the legislation about nudity.
INF-FNI (SI) : thinks that the FFN changed its mail address.
Netherlands (BH) : Better is worth to cover the subject of Ireland.
Germany (KF): the agenda may be changed. Proposal of the DFK about the new operational budget of the European events.
Ireland (PG) : suggested that its subject should integrated in “the European regulation.”
Great Britain (MF): received the proposal of Ireland and a 2nd proposal of Sweden and wishes a discussion on the subject.
Ireland (PG): propose to use the services of the INF-FNI to standardise the regulation.
Sweden (EI) : it should be possible to obtain a license directly from the INF-FNI. The Swedish Federation required without success to belong to a “natural” association. The wish would be to have a European unit to bring solutions, assistances to this kind of steps.
1) PROPOSITION OF THE DFK.
Germany (KF) : The part of the European budget in the INF-FNI budget concerns also the Interfederal Meetings. How will these meetings be managed? The DFK tried hardly to make a written proposal (translation made in three languages). All the countries have to read the project quietly and be impregnated of it.
France (PR) : proposes to discuss about the three points of the 1st page.
Germany (KF) : Since the congress, things evolved: the part allocated to the European budget would be between 30 and 40% of the INF-FNI budget . A discussion took place in Brazil between Sieglinde, Roger, Kurt and an international lawyer. Then, Kurt and Sebastian (youth responsible) raised the question of the management of this European budget (30% = 54.000 €) and proposed the creation of a college of three people (EU COM) which would include :
- An operations manager “Youth”
- An operations manager “Sport”
- An operations manager for the federations: (preferably of a federation which
has an office to avoid the expenses)
Luxembourg (JP) : the name of this commission has to integrate the word «naturism»
Proposition : EU NAT COM (translation possible in all languages)
Netherlands (BH) : the role of the «Youth» and «Sport-Leisure» responsible are clear, but the mission of this federations representative is not well defined.
Germany (KF) : The budget assigns to a share “Young people” and a share “Sports”. The person in charge “Federations” will be the neutral person who balances the assignment of the balance in the case of litigation.
Spain (IR) : proposes that Mick (INF-FNI) should be that third person, but Mick himself that a person out of the CC should be necessary.
INF-FNI (SI) : It is not the role of somebody of the INF-FNI
Natherlands (BH) : The functions of that third person has not to be only the management, the balancing of the budget, but also to improve, promote the naturism in Europe.
Germany (KF) : Interesting idea, but the allocated budget is just enough to cover the expenses for «youth» and «sports». It should not be forgotten that 70 % of the incomings remain in the INF-FNI budget, which role is to make promotion in Europe.
INF-FNI (SI) : The budget could include other activities and not be called only «Youth and Sports», but European events.
Germany (KF) : In Brazil, the budget was quite entitled: budget for European events, not limited for sports and youth.
France (PR) : What about the apportionment of the proposed budget propose, especially concerning the purchase of a computer for Roger?
INF-FNI (RV) : The computer was quite purchased.
Germany (KF) : Since the congress in Brazil, it was necessary to work and the purchase of the computer was realised in that aim. It was financed ½ by the INF-FNI and ½ is paid by EU NAT COM.
Germany (KF) : proposes Roger Viola for the post of Responsible for «Sports». Roger has already elaborated the budget 2009.
Italy (AC) : Is the budget of 30 % a project for the next budgetary year or does it already concern 2009?
Germany (KF) : The congress had defined the budget between 30 and 40 % until the next budgetary year.
Hungary (SJ): What are accurately the roles of the delegates «sports» and «youth»? To organise events or only tendencies?
Germany (KF) : Nothing new for the events themselves. What changes is the managing manner.
FFN (PR) : Roger should stop his function in 2009. What about that ?
INF-FNI (RV) : The presently occupied post should disappear. We go towards a development. Other things will take place.
INF-FNI (SI) : Dans la pratique, tous ces événements INF-FNI, ont toujours été européens. On ne veut que remettre les choses à leurs vraies places et mieux structurer ces évènements.
Germany (KF) : It is the structuring manner of the annual meetings which changes with the better defined bases.
France (PR) : Does that also concern the «youth» meetings?
Germany (KF) : All events are concerned. But everything remains flexible and the development may go towards Bernd's ideas (promotion of naturism)
INF-FNI (RV) : Existing events: «Alpe Adria» meeting, «families meeting», swimming, petanque, «Youth meeting».
Germany (SH) : The “Youth” activities of each federation must be taken into account on the same equal base. For a better organisation, a common framework must be defined. The prospect would be to be attached to a European organisation “EXOYOUNG” which heads the sports events and “youth” meetings. This organisation will change its statutes within 2011 and the wish would be to carry a candidature of the “young European naturists” attached to this organisation. For that, it is imperative to define a common framework for all the European Federations.
Spain (SN) : Why not to reserve a budget for the sport for young people and another one for the sports leisure for the adults?
Germany (SH) : The budget was defined in this way with different lines and it may be allocated as the Commission will decide it.
INF-FNI (RV) : A project has to be submitted and the commission will decide.
Germany (KF): Concerning the vote system, the proposition is to take the same allocation key as for INF-FNI.
Italy (AC) : The 5 most important European federations hold the absolute majority. What is there about the other federations if the majority federations agree together?
Ireland (PG) : A certain quota is assigned to the big federations. Who will decide about the elections and number of votes for EU NAT COM? Currently the number of votes depends on the number of sold stamps. What will be decided for EU NAT COM?
Germany (KF) : The criteria will be the same as for the INF-FNI.
Ireland (PG): Was this way of calculating been decided by the INF-FNI or in an arbitrary way?
Spain (IR) : The attribution ratios of the votes must be carried on the European statutes.
Hungary (SJ) : Today 5 federations are deciding… it should be found another system in order to allow to «small» federations to say something.
Great Britain(MF) : How can it be imagined that the currently big federations will be the same in the future!
Germany (KF) : At the congress in Brazil, long discussions took place about this same subject.
In Europe, the same rules have to be applied (according to the sold stamps).
Ireland (PG) : The Committee of the INF-FNI gives only the result of the elections. The members of the INF-FNI only know the number of sold stamps per federation. The small federations do not know and have no access to the information.
Germany (KF) : The attribution of the number of votes is not the fact of the members of the Central Committee of the INF-FNI. This information is given at the congress or on the website of the INF-FNI.
Italy (AC) : It has to be spoken about the organisation of the future and I want to point out that: the weight of the stamps sold by the 5 big federations represents the half of a circle... while the votes represent more than three quarters.
INF-FNI (RV) : To go forward, a mean to vote Kurt's proposition has to be found.
Germany (KF) : On the world level, it is nearly the same problem: the American Federation is very powerful.
Netherlands (BH) : Our ai mis to organise events in a mostly large frame. Nobody should to be afraid by the ones or the others.
INF-FNI (GV) : At the congresses in Spain and in Brazil, Switzerland asked to set up : one federation = one vote. Could that system not be introduced in Europe?
France (PR): We work in that way in France. Each club, small or big, has the same weight (One club = one vote). We think that this system should be established for EU NAT COM.
Germany (KF): The most important is to be present in the organisation. The big ones have to listen the small. This rule is applied in the European Parliament and in the German Sports Organisation to which they belong.
Pays-Bas (BH) : However would be the system, Bernd explains that he could not take any decision and that he would have to refer to his authority.
INF-FNI (SI) : The INF-FNI has not to intervene. If the assembly decides «1 vote = 1 federation», the INF-FNI will accept.
Germany (KF) : If a decision would be taken, it has to be applied in the future. If the application is immediate, his federal board would consider it as bad.
France (PR) : Proposes to vote the Kurt's proposition on the current bases and to think about one vote = one federation.
INF-FNI (SI) ; This year, 2 persons to choose : it will be done as usually.
Next year, the elections will be organised with the new system.
Germany (KF) : Today, among the four representatives of the INF-FNI, three stem from small federations. It is proved that the most important is the work of the persons and not from where they are coming.
Germany (SH) : There is no problem to change things in the future, however would be the decision. We are here to make things go forward. Nevertheless, there should be defined rules to take our decision.
France (PR) : Wil we elect two or three persons ?
Germany (KF): For three! It is important to know how we will vote. Today, we know the shares defined at the congress. We have to keep the defined rules.
Luxembourg (JP) : There are not enough present federations today to vote on the base of 1 vote = 1 federation. 12 federations are present out of 23. If one federation does not vote, the majority will not be reached. The old system has to be applied.
INF-FNI (GV) : The statutes of the INF-FNI provides two possible votes. According to the sold stamps or on the base : 1 vote = 1 federation. It is possible to make the two elections and to compare.
Germany (KF) : Firstly to vote according to the sold stamps and then pass to a second election (if everybody does agree).
Germany (SH) : There is no pressure against the fact to elect people, but the procedure is reproached. Everything has to be put on the table and after we have to make things go forward.
France (PR) : Today we will vote according to the INF-FNI regulations for 3 persons and for one year. Next year, it will be thought about the election method and the elections will be done again.
Voting for the proposition of Paul Réthoré : yes unanimously.
INF-FNI (GV) : It is firstly necessary to explain certain things (under-points of the n° 3) before passing to the elections. For the moment Sieglinde is the president and responsible for the INF-FNI «Youth» Commission. The new «Youth» representative would return under her authority she resigns. The same remark is true for Roger.
Germany (KF) : They should resign from their current mandate if other persons would be elected in Europe.
INF-FNI (SI) : No problem, but the procedure has to be respected.
INF-FNI (RV) : If there are resignations, there will no more be any representative for «Youth» and «sports» in the INF-FNI Committee.
INF-FNI (GV) : It is a technical problem : if Roger does not longer belong to the Committee, he will be invited automatically.
Germany (KF): The work of Roger will be the same: so, no problem.
Italy (AC): Is Roger candidate ?
INF-FNI : Organise the elections : if the persons will be elected, the resignations will follow.
France (PR) : Roger is the representative for all the international federations…. What will happen if he resigns?
INF-FNI (RV) : Currently, the other federations do not take care of Europe (for ex. The United States). The INF-FNI does not receive any information about the events in the rest of the world.
Roger and Sebastian are candidates.
Roger : candidate for the post of «sports officer»
Against : 0
Abstention : 0
Sebastian : candidate for the post of «youth officer»
Against : 0
Abstention : 0
Sieglinde and Roger resign officially from their previous functions.
The statutes will have to be changed according to these new events.
Sieglinde indicated that she will be at the disposal of Sebastian for each advice.
Germany (KF) : It will be necessary to pass to the election of the third person, the officer for the federations.
France (PR): The functions of this member have to be defined: arbitration or perhaps more?
INF-FNI (RV) : It is premature to allot tasks for this post. Reforms (wanted by Sieglinde and me) are expected and the functions of this post will result from that.
Kurt (Germany) and Ismaël (Spain) are candidates
Germany: Kurt would be candidate, knowing that today the roles are not well defined.
Netherlands (BH) : It is a worry for me to proceed to the election of a post for which the mission is not known especially if the kind of the function will evolve. Why not wait until next year? We can trust Sebastian and Roger.
Spain (SN) : The idea to elect only 2 persons is not logical in so far as we are not sure of the election method.
Switzerland (EZ) : Kurt worked already well the question: thus the mission can be entrusted to him for a year and the next year, elections will be done.
INF-FNI (RV) : It is necessary to benefit today from the definite vote method: one vote = one federation, to do the election of the third person.
Spain (IR) : The proposal mentions 3 people to be elected, it is thus necessary to make the elections today. The proposal stipulates 4 years mandates, we cannot thus elect the representative of the federations only for one year!
Germany (KF): For this transitional period, Kurt stands as a candidate for one year and then new elections will be organised.
Germany (SH) : To continue the started work, Kurt could be the right person for this post.
INF-FNI : This year: 1 vote = 1 federation, for the election of this post. Next year, this same system will be applied (for this same post).
Spain (IR) : It is a good thing that there are two candidates: that shows the interest of the mission. The representative « Youth » is German, so if Kurt (German) would be elected, he would perhaps not be neutral enough in his role of balance insofar as the roles of the mission are not well defined.
France (PR) : Paul joined this idea by preoccupation of objectivity (not against Kurt) l
Great Britain (MF) : We have to pass to the votes.
Germany (KF): There are tasks to be achieved, the fact of belonging to the same federation does not have any importance.
Nevertheless, Kurt withdraws his candidature.
VOTING: Operations manager for the federations: Ismaël
Proposal for the name of this new commission: E.N.C.
2) EUROPEAN BUDGET
INF-FNI (RV) : The projected budget was drawn up and then refitted according to the known needs. The budget was sent to all the federations without obtaining many answers.
Budget: 54.000 €
Germany (KF) : These figures are based on the data of the previous years. If the budget would decrease, all the events would not be realisable.
INF-FNI (RV) : Previously, the federation which wanted to organise an event had to provide a projected budget. The subsidy was then often more important than today. Have we to return to that solution?
Germany (KF) : Anyway, the expenses have to be justified…
INF-FNI (RV) : The federations do not know: the projected budget is used to envisage and know the expenditure in advance and makes it possible to « stick » to the reality.
Germany (KF) : Since 2004, the INF-FNI is an association registered under the German legislation. So, all the proof documents must be in accountancy: no possible expenditure without proof documents. It is necessary thus that all papers justifying the expenditure are transmitted to the European commission (structure which allocates the subsidy). In the long term, they will be paid allowances and not more subsidies.
The Commission or the federations should not make benefit on the « back » of the INF-FNI.
If all the planned money is not spent during the year, the remainder will be carried over to the following year.
3) INTERFEDERAL MEETINGS 2010-2011-2012
2010 Luxembourg (March 04th to 07th)
2011 Sweden (end of Mai)
Roger visited the centre which will accommodate the Interfederal Meeting in 2010: beautiful ground, half naturist.
The Belgian Federation wishes that the Interfederal Meeting will be organised on a weekend without a public holiday: many events are envisaged on these long weekends.
Germany (SH) : expresses his regret and his dissatisfaction because on this weekend, a « Youth » event is organised. Same date as for the Interfederal Meeting. The Young people need a long weekend from 3 to 4 days to travel. The only possible one: the weekend of the Ascension.
Sweden (EI) : It is necessary to privilege weekends with a public holiday for the meetings, the vacations of working people are not extensible
INF-FNI (RV) : It will be necessary, in the future, to try as well as possible to choose the dates of the meetings according to the new participating people.
End of the first day
Saturday, May 23rd 2009
France : Paul reminded the points which will be treated:
- the legislation
- hiking naked
- the beaches
- the planet
1) THE LEGISLATION :
Paul asked which are the federations which transmitted to the INF-FNI their current legislation.
INF-FNI (SI) : The request was made twice. The majority of the federations answered but returns are missing. It is possible, despite of all, to have today a general idea of the current legislation. It is very rare to have a legislation against nudity, but in fact other laws can come to frame the nudity in a negative way. The Central Committee of the INF-FNI has no problem with the wishes of the Irish Federation, but is not able to make lobbying at the Parliament. It is the right time to begin a campaign because there are elections soon.
Two things have to be considered well:
- Parliamentary groups with religious convictions could be opposite to naturism.
It is thus necessary to be well organised to meet these groups.
- The INF- FNI represents naturism through the world: there is thus a difference between it and the European Parliament. The INF-FNI can bring something more but the leaders who must take the steps are the federations themselves.
After this meeting, Ireland will begin a campaign at the Irish Parliament members (with the support of the International Federation) to obtain a better legislation.
The INF-FNI supports this campaign. Its success depends of the other federations. All the current projects which could go in this direction took delay (the elections should not be the cause). It would be necessary that each federation becomes aware that it is necessary to work on this subject!!
France (PR) : Will the INF- FNI translate the legislations of the different countries?
INF-FNI (MA) : Yes, it is a priority.
Germany (KF) : The DFK indicated the legal situation in Germany. It is difficult to give a ruling because today all the federations do not know the legislation of the other countries.
INF-FNI (SI) : For the moment, it is necessary to collect information, the discussions will come afterwards. The most important is to have all the texts and to translate them.
Spain (IR) : In the document prepared by the Spanish Federation, the first paragraph handles this subject.
France (PR): How many countries did not transmit their legislation?
INF-FNI (SI): Among the present federations at this Interfederal Meeting, only three did not give the documents. Currently, we are in possession of half of the legislations of the federations.
Italy (AC) : The important point is not only the legislation, but how it is applied. In Italy, two beaches are authorised whereas the country counts more than 7.600 km of littoral. Nine years ago, justice authorised the practice of naturism in the places where, historically, the naturists were accustomed to attend these places.
Sweden (IR) : We support the questionnaire of Spain. It would be interesting to make a round table to know the situation of the other federations.
Spain (IR) : Not in agreement with Italy. In Spain, a large campaign to inform the whole country was organised by the federation. Naturism is now recognised everywhere.
Germany (KF) : I do not share the opinion of Spain. On paper it is perfect, but in practice it is different. The problem cannot be regulated so easily. On beaches located close to large hotels, it is impossible to be, go naked without the police force will be coming.
INF-FNI (MA) : The given examples reinforce the point of view of the INF-FNI: the regulation does not prohibit but the application should be considered.
Italy (AC) : The Italian Federation counts 5,000 members. The Parliament members are against naturism. 2 million people are favourable to naturism on 60 million inhabitants. There is much difference between these three figures.
Spain (IR) : It would be necessary to know in Italy, how many people are «against» naturism. In Spain only 1% people are «against».
Italy (AC) : It is not known how many people are «against». But the laws are made by the Parliament members and the answers of the latter about naturism are unfavourable.
Irlande (PG) : In the conducted campaign, there is a need of a standardisation of the laws on nudity in Europe. It is necessary to start by contacting the people who make the laws in Europe. The standardisation in Europe could represent a mean, a help for the other countries of the world searching also a favourable legislation for naturism.
Netherlands (SH) : To know if everyone agrees, a lobbying should be organised. There is no really prohibition of naturism but it is necessary to ask for the possibility for undress naked in the public places.
The INF-FNI must put the various legislations on the site.
Spain (IR) : It is necessary that the INF-FNI and the federations answer to the second point of the questionnaire: nudity everywhere or only in the public places? The law should not be changed: simply, there should be no law!
Germany (KF) : Nudity in a public place is not prohibited, it is the reaction of somebody who is not a naturist which can lead to the problem (even to an interpretation in front of a court).
The idea of Ireland is perhaps good, but the experience shows that if all the naturists do not go in the same direction, it will not do well.
Great Britain (MF): In the United Kingdom, there is no law against nudity. Great Britain is favourable to the idea of Spain. The English federation employs a professional lobbyist to the make the laws advance at the Parliament. The British support the project of the Irish Federation and ask for a vote.
Hungary (SJ) : It is necessary to go forward and vote for a standardised law in favour of nudity. Then, it is necessary to discuss on the contents this law: authorisation of nudity with its limits.
Spain (IR) : It is necessary to take time to answer the questions of the Spanish form. The problem is that the questionnaire proposed by Spain is not translated….
INF-FNI (GV): We all must be pragmatic. We are a minority. We have not to expect a law. We do not have with us people who make the law. It is necessary to start to work in each country to arrive to a common project.
France (PR): The law punishes the sexual exhibition but this law makes it possible to interpret simple nudity like an offense. We tried to intervene to the deputies by proposing a new text which specifies that « simple nudity in public is not an offense». The minister refused this modification. We chose to make accept natural nudity by the population. If the concept of nudity is accepted among electors, it will be accepted by the deputies.
Since three years, we have done much information by the media in the cities, the villages, the beaches… Before, we were going to seek the media, now they are coming towards us. We will soon discuss about hiking naked, it is perhaps an idea which can make the idea of nudity advance and bring a common legislation to all the federations.
Italy (AC) : Today the naturist places have rather to increase than making laws. We must think how we can «makes» naturism at the general public.
INF-FNI (GV) : Many good ideas are expressed but we must remain realistic. The INF-FNI will ensure the project of the Irish Federation and will translate, after having collected them, the various legislations. Then, a form will be on line to know the various actions.
France (PR) : VOTING about the project of Ireland
Aim : Standardisation of an European law in favour of the practice of nudity.
Germany (KF) : Vote non valid, requests a new vote
Germany (KF) : Does not understand who makes what ?
France (PR) : Today, the INF-FNI collects the legislations and sends the translations to the various federations.
INF-FNI (GV) : Un résumé des différentes législations sera mis sur le net.
Ireland (PC) : The project is to submit to the European Parliament a text which requires to revise all discriminations towards nudity present in the various EU laws.
The Irish Federation is happy to take part in this project and to collaborate with the INF-FNI to push the file forward.
INF-FNI (MA) : The INF-FNI will collect the legislations, translate them and write a letter which will be transmitted to the federations. It belongs to these latter to make the steps near their European deputies.
Spain (IR) : As the new EU NAT COM elected, Ismaël proposes to send this mail to the federations.
Germany (KF) : Ismaël is the right prson, but caution, because EU NAT COM is not yet known.
2 – Naked hiking : (question asked by France)
France (PR): Several observations:
- Trips in mixed groups (more men in general)
- Persons taking care towards non-naturists whom they may meet
- The naturists in groups notice that generally they make any fear
- Normally, the groups are not worried by the police in contrary of a person alone
- For the FFN, when it is spoken about naked hiking, that means mixed, respectful,
careful groups and in no way about a person alone.
Two associations require a membership at the FFN.
An experience has just been carried out in a holiday centre. Steps were made at the town hall to obtain an authorisation for naked hiking. The authorisation was obtained and the police accompanied the naturist hikers so that they were not worried.
France would like to know if the other federations have some experiences in this field.
Hungary (SJ) : The practice of the naked hiking exists in Hungary. No problem because the routes are studied in advance. The places are often selected, by using old military maps, on places where only little people can be met.
Germany (KF) : There are signposted places planned for naked hiking. In this case, the German Federation agrees completely. On the other hand it is against naked hiking on places where non-naturists are to meet. That may bring negative reactions to the naturist cause. The DFK is opposed to the exposure of the naked bodies anywhere, anyhow…
Netherlands (BH) : No important enthusiasm for naked hiking in Holland, but an association exists and belongs to the Dutch Federation. (canoe club: people strip off naked when the situation is favourable). The association is affiliated without problem if it respects the ethics.
Luxembourg (JP) : Naked hiking does not exist in Luxembourg
Austria (FV) : No naked hiking.
Spain (IR) : The main activity of about fifteen Spanish associations is naked hiking.
Hungary (SJ) : The «naked canoeing » is also practised in Hungary. There was an attempt of publicity of these events on the Net. It was an error because that favoured the arrival of undesirable people.
Germany (KF) : It would be well to put the naked hiking activities on a forum and to thus collect information which could be exchanged
Hungary (SJ) : O K for a «soft» forum on the subject.
INF-FNI (GV) : O K for a communication but not for a forum.
Great Britain (MF) : Some groups practise naked hiking. The Federation has not too much information... but it exists.
Switzerland (EZ) : Apparently the phenomenon exists a little everywhere. Perhaps, in Switzerland, it may be different because the country is small, but they are the foreigners who come to practise naked hiking on one place only (Alpsteingebirge in the canton of Appenzell). That poses a problem, because it is a very beautiful region where families come to walk…
There are also people who ski naked. There was a vote in this canton and the citizens declared themselves against.
Ireland (PC) : The practice is not a problem if the naked hikers do not intend to offend the people whom they meet.
Italy (AC) : Two associations, one of them recognised by the Federation, organise naked hiking trips: one near Garda Lake and the other near Roma. These trips have been organised since 10 years (groups of 20 to 30 mixed people). No specific problem.
Sweden (EI) : Only one association, affiliated to the Swedish Federation, proposes naked hiking trips on ways of long-distance footpaths. Never specific problems.
INF-FNI (SI) : What about the membership requirements of the two French associations?
France (PR) : The requests are recent. We wanted to ask this question on the Interfederal Meeting in order to know the position of the other federations. In France, we are wondering, because the current legislation is not explicit.
If the membership is granted, the statutes of associations will have to include clearly different important points: concept of group, family, mixity, respect…
Paul thanked the federations for their statements and would like to come into contact with those which already gave affiliations.
3) THE BEACHES
France (PR) : 40 authorised beaches with written agreement
40 authorised beaches with verbal agreement
No authorisation for the other beaches
11 affiliated FFN clubs are present
Problem : Too many people confuse naturism and sexual exhibition.
Currently, on the search engines, the requested information relates in great majority to the beaches.
It is thus important that the behaviour of the naturists on the beaches is impeccable. We do not know how to rectify certain situations.
Question : Have the European Federations the same difficulties on the beaches? Solutions?
Netherlands (BH) : The problem also arises in the Netherlands. The press sells «sex in public». The conservative minds work against naturism. There are fires which should be extinguished. To each unique opportunity, we will meet the municipalities to explain the things. It is always important to repeat to the press that our interests are different from those who practise sex. In the case of a legal problem with the valid legislation in Holland, the naturists will win. 4 years ago, articles were published in the press saying that if places are reserved for the naturists, it is also necessary to create «sex» places. Of course, it was a joke.
Luxembourg (JP) : Not concerned. No beaches in Luxembourg, only swimming pools.
Germany (KF) : The things are framed better. There exist two beaches which belong to German holiday centres and which do not have any problem. On the other beaches: no particular concern. Punctually, a journalist, run out of ideas will seek some scandalous facts there…!!!
Austria (FV) : Several beaches which are not «organised» as naturist beaches exist. There is no feedback on what occurs on these places. On the club grounds, in theory, no problem. The police count on the clubs which are close to the beaches to ensure the respect, the good behaviour.
Spain (IR) : No problem. In Spain, the sex act in public is not penalised except with children and mental handicapped people.
Hungary (SJ) : No reported case…
Great Britain (MF) : Loss of an official beach due to erosion. On some places, there are problems with homosexuality; the Federation does not know how to do.
Switzerland (EZ) : No official beaches. In the case of a problem, everyone knows the others and if somebody acts badly, he is expelled immediately.
Ireland (PC): Ireland counts 11 beaches, recognised by the Federation where there is no problem.
Perhaps on the other not recognised beaches, it may happen there some «sex» activities. But that remains an exception.
Italy (AC) : Only two beaches are authorised in Italy. No recorded concern on these places. Nine years ago, some problems occurred and the nearest club, with the assistance to the authorities, made «forcing» and all was solved very quickly. Apart from the official beaches, there exist 6 naturist beaches without specific problem. During the weekends and the tourist season, there are always members of clubs or of the Federation on the naturist places (official or not). On the other hand, there exist meeting places (via Internet) and the population confuses the naturist beaches with swingers exhibitionist. beaches!
Sweden (EI) : There are 70 beaches where naturism can be practised. Half of these beaches are official. Apart from these 70 beaches, there are hundreds of beaches of which the federation does not take care. On certain places, sexual overflows exist. A project is running with the police «clean». The federation hopes that this problem will be solved soon.
France (PR): Paul proposed to keep contacts and to see together the problems and the manner of solving them.
On the Cap d'Agde, where the problems occur in July and August, 80% of the holiday makers are foreigners. Can INF- FNI come to support the actions which are set up?
INF-FNI (SI) : It is important to make going up the encountered problems to the INF-FNI. It is not its competence to make stop the sexual activities on the beaches, including in the Cap d'Agde. The INF-FNI can however inform the other federations of the problems in order to avoid these places. It is necessary to warn the members of the federations of this kind of activities, but while remaining careful in order not to make publicity…
Sweden (EI) : It is difficult to communicate on the subject. The more it is spoken about that, the more publicity is produced…
France (PR) : Since 4 years, we have made steps. The mayor answers to the French Federation, but if he feels an international presence, his listening could be different… Can the INF-FNI come to meet the authorities??
INF-FNI (MA) : Of course, it is a mission of the INF-FNI
INF-FNI (SI) : Some actions have already been fulfilled. The problem was already approached.
Germany (KF) : It is necessary to pay attention with whom we communicate. In the past, interpretations were not always right. Generally, it is necessary to pay attention with the press. The possibilities of expressing to us are difficult: the journalist does not retranslate always accurately.
France (PR) : Proposal that the following point «Planet» will be put online on FOCUS in order to save speaking time for the INF-FNI.
Sweden (EI) : Eirik writes also something about the subject and will join his article with the one of Paul.
George has some points to approach .....
In 1953, some people met together to found the INF. Since, the latter evolved. The people who already attended the meetings noticed that many conversations could be treated during the meals.
The INF-FNI is in the position of speaking about naturism and cannot come into contact with the naturist clubs. However, if it would be the case, the INF-FNI could have an excellent database. With Internet, the documents are very quickly obsolete and must be updated very often.
In the past, much time was lost to look at the problems of not updated data. It is high time to find solutions adapted to the means of communication of today. With all this wasted time, we could have made the promotion of naturism in the world…
There are groups among you who wish to leave the INF-FNI and to build something else,: you know of whom I speak…. You know that certain information which circulates on the Net does not go further as the person who opens the email…
I had the possibility to meet persons in charge of federations who had not seen, not read the last Focus (who even do not know its existence!!!). These same federations complain to not receive anything…
We went to a congress where we spent much time to discuss. I have here a document (the minutes) translated in three languages. An example: we had agreed that the federations would provide articles. After eight months, only two articles, of which one is a controversy, reached us. Another example: with the congress, the federations had to send their statistics to the INF-FNI. Since, no reply was recorded.
These remarks have nothing to do with the work of the various federations which are much busy on their grounds, but it is a problem of communication. It is very important if we want to survive!!! Do you know that the base of the data bank decreases by 20% every 6 months? In this field the INF-FNI has been unique … There are federations which do not update their own Web page and that since two years!! Certain vacation centres or clubs do not exist anymore.
The absence of information tends to decrease the number of visitors and increases the number of dissatisfied visitors. Since Mick is at the INF, there was never such a recurring conversation on the database. I met people who do not update the databases and these same people claim for a good image of the INF-FNI. In fact, it should be known that information on the site of the INF-FNI could be updated regularly and very easily. We will once again try to make an updating for the clubs. If we do not obtain an answer, we will remove the pages. The name of the federation will only appear. The federations can help the INF-FNI while requiring at the clubs by mail to answer the follow-ups of the INF-FNI. The database (the tool) of the INF-FNI is very old: many information are not up to date.
Germany: certain prices are not yet in €
Austria: 20 clubs only are updated
France: out of 162 clubs, only 20 are up to date
Great Britain: out of 62 entities, 18 are up to date
Italy: no club is up to date.
At the congress of Brazil, it was said as that we needed a connection bulletin: we practically did not receive articles. Spain and New Zealand are the only ones to have sent something.
We would like that at the reception of Focus, you will open it and read it (you, the responsible of the federations!!!). Its contents interest also the clubs, the holiday centres.
I realised by composing Focus, that the most adapted format is a document of two pages. A newspaper of several pages is often not read in entirely. This is why, we must preserve this format but with interesting articles.
In Focus, there should be articles written by the federations, but also articles about the development of naturism, of the clubs which are well or less well. To know how to preserve its members, information on the sites of research .....
I hope that the published issues pleased to you and that you will take an active part in the future Focus.
There will be no guide 2010: the contract expired. Many federations have a guide. When the database is up to date, it could be planned to make a guide in the form of CD.
George: «At a meeting with the president of the Netherlands, a question was asked to me about the future of the INF- FNI.
I answered that the important thing is not what the INF-FNI thinks, but what the federations think»!!
Vision of the Dutch President:
In the majority of the companies, the change does not affect anything; what misses is a vision of the future. A vision is only one waste of time, if there is no plan on a paper. At the last congress, many writings, many words… and then nothing arrived!!! The vision of the INF-FNI should be the resultant of all the visions of the federations, of all the clubs, all the vacation centres. Nothing can be accomplished if everyone is not on the same plan.
If all the parties would send the infos to the right people (all the data, the updates, naturist events, press releases), the office of the INF-FNI would be informed in priority. On the site, each page must be updated (clubs and holiday centres). The office of the INF-FNI should be the informed first of all the naturist events.
The naturist passport is an invaluable good, the license is as important as your bank card. Do not leave without it. If we can increase the value of our naturist card, it should be done!!. At the congress, all the present people were there for, precisely, increase the value of naturism, to give him a place without border. It is a meeting which was left with regret and with a bag full with useful information.
Secretariat : The office of Antwerp is closed, that implies many changes. The central office did not complete work to be carried out. We were surprised by the little of received phone calls (3 paid phone lines!!!). The office was encumbered of many not sorted papers which could have been destroyed. The INF-FNI supported an expenditure for non necessary sorters.
The communication improved much in the last times. Now, many information are generated and distributed: updates of the email addresses for the sendings of Focus (send the changes of addresses and the INF-FNI will make the corrections). It is noted an improvement in the communication on the magazines, in the media.
Unfortunately, the secretariat had been so much degraded that nothing «new» was accomplished. The office was opened, ready to welcome, ready to receive phone calls, but nothing happened. Now things will change. The new office will be located in Austria at a less cost. Sieglinde already made several talks for future personnel. This office should open in August or September 2009. Currently, the office functions thanks to all the members of the Central committee. Since a certain time, we have testimonies of satisfaction for the services fulfilled by the temporary office. The communication system is improved and we have an increase in the information requests. The exchanges with the federations and the holiday centres are positive.
Communication : MA will do short according to the long last day…
Three things to do :
- May you check if the data of the «contacts» sent to the media are right? To check if we sent the name of our officer in charge of communication with the INF-FNI. It is important to react fast at the requests of the media. If it is not the case, the latter «will see elsewhere» and do not do anything for us. The Internet site his very successful, but the INF-FNI cannot answer on the subjects concerning the federations.
- The new federations can require of the assistance of the INF-FNI to form their structure. When the federations are constituted, they must send their statutes to the INF-FNI. We have in our possession the old documents and we are astonished that there no was evolution to date: it is thus necessary to send new documents to the INF-FNI as soon as a change intervenes (statutes). That can help the other federations and that belongs to the duties of the federations towards the INF-FNI.
- In your offices, on your computer, put a post-it: «THINK AT THE INF-FNI» and send the information and the updates.
Sport : (RV)
All the federations received new forms and that does not function!!!
That represents many forms to put in memory, but generates a time saving for the sports officers if the use is correct.
Roger will give information about these forms, to the different present persons in charge of the future events.
If that does not function during the coming year, a new contact will be made directly with the federations in order to make them acting!!!
Planned events :
- Swimming 2010: Great Britain
- Petanque 2010: Germany
- Swimming 2011: Spain (proposition)
- Petanque 2011: ?
Sebastian had the impression that after the proposals of Eu Nat Com, the persons were elected but their tasks are not defined. He was elected to fulfil a mission and he would like to know what he has to do and to prepare. When will be the next meeting take place? That is not defined.
Germany (KF) : The texts of suggested motion were distributed, but were they adopted by the assembly?
Italy (AC) : It is important to take a decision. May it be discussed on Sunday morning ?
Il est important de prendre une décision. Peut-on en discuter dimanche matin ?
Germany (KF) : I gave to everybody the opportunity to read the documents. Three people were elected but the whole document was not adopted.
Great Britain (MF) : What was voted are the points of the nr. 3, but the other points were not voted.
Germany (KF) : The text is very clear, we will not start all again
Spain (IR) : It takes more time to analyze the document in its entirety.
Germany (KF) : The paper was translated into three languages: there should not anymore be a problem.
E N C: No legal statutes, so it is a commission of the INF-FNI
Germany (KF) : What is written on the proposal is what was discussed at the congress!!! I do not understand anymore….
INF-FNI (RV) : OK it is really what was discussed which is written (all points)
VOTING of the proposition
End of the second day
Sunday, May 24th 2009.
France (PR): proposal of a round table to express how were lived these two meeting days and then projects and decided actions.
Netherlands (BH) : First of all the meetings were quite pleasant in an good atmosphere and a good organisation. We would have saved time if the documents had been studied by all in advance. In the future it would be important to transmit to the translators all the documents about which it will be spoken.
Great-Britain (MF) : Completely in agreement with the Netherlands. Moreover, it is a pity that we did not have enough time to speak about «planet» and the other points of the agenda which were not approached.
Luxembourg (JP) : Takes care of the organisation of the next meeting and will take account of the expressed remarks. The invitations will be sent three months before the meeting. Then, the working documents will have to be sent one fortnight before the meeting. They will be transmitted to the federations. If there are translation problems, Luxembourg can help.
Germany (KF) : The new commission has to take in account these remarks, that belongs to its work. There should not be «sheets» distributed on the last moment. The documents for the next meeting will have to arrive in December 2009 to the federations.
Kurt shares Bernd's point of view about the organisation of the meeting. Kurt regrets the long speech of George. There was not enough time to react to his remarks. He did not say anything new, that made «double» with what is written in Focus.
Instead delivering an «old speech», it would have been necessary to speak about the role of the INF-FNI and the interesting subjects such as for example the new federations, the relations with the holidays centres of France and Croatia .....
Germany (SH) : Thanks for the reception (FFN and Domaine LABORDE). Regret for the time wasted for the translations. A simultaneous translation would be preferable to save more time.
Hope that all the federations will send him the addresses of the Youth officers.
He wishes to invite all the Youth officers on the Ascension 2010.
Italy (AC) : Representatives are delighted by attending this meeting. They appreciated as well the stay as Kurt's angers.
Important that the Young people are implied in the new European commission. Italy awaits everyone in Calabria in 2010 for the INF-FNI congress.
Hungary (SJ) : Feeling that more time have could be spent on the important decisions like the votes and not on the administrative problems. Very appreciated stay.
Spain (IR) : Thanks for the reception of France and the organisation. In comparison with other Interfederal Meetings, many important decisions were taken. Now we have: the INF-FNI (Central Committee), federations and new European commission. It is important that we will have to work together and that we have common agreements. Like all the participants at this meeting, we like the beautiful sites for our holidays and we have the will to transmit an ideal. It would be well to have reductions with our naturist card but important is to transmit our philosophy.
It would be preferable to have, for our meetings, professional interpreters or the professional material. Maybe it will be possible with the European budget.
Switzerland (EZ) : Joins with all what was said by Kurt, Bernd, Jean and thank the FFN for the work provided for the organisation.
Ireland (PG) : The Irish Federation thanked the FFN and the translators. Happy that at the conclusion of this meeting, the situation of the new European commission was examined. Happy also that the project of the standardisation of the laws about nudity is an European project. It is important that naturism is recognized as a lifestyle and that there is no more discrimination.
Italy (AC) : Three points to be evoked:
- It was the 11th Interfederal Meeting on which he participated. He is always happy at these meetings and he is charmed to see new faces.
- Shares the point of view of the Netherlands about the circulation of the documents in advance
- Discussions, words…. It should not been forgotten that it is spoken about Naturism. If it is French, German, Italian, it is same naturism for everyone…
Sweden (EI) : Eirik said the same as everyone and thanked in the same manner the FFN for the organisation, the choice of the place…. He thanked for the granted trust to him for the organisation of the meeting in 2011. He is also afraid by the translation problem.
For the points which could not be approached at this meeting, it could be planned to treat them on Focus or by other means of data processing. Eirik thought that a forum is missing, reserved for the Interfederal group.
France (CO): Glad to have given a share to this meeting. In the past, I actively contributed to the running of the INF-FNI, that made me know it from inside.
In the life, nothing is entirely white, nothing is not entirely black. More nuances would have been desirable in the remarks of George.
FFN (LC) : First participation to an Interfederal Meeting. I hope to have responded to waitings of each one and thank all the participants for their encouraging remarks concerning the organisation. It was a convivial meeting where each one could express himself in full freedom.
FFN (PR) : A new commission «EU NAT COM» was born, with an attributed budget. We trust them.
We discussed together important problems such as the beaches, the naked hiking.
For France, we hope to be able to continue to exchange on these subjects. We will write an article in Focus for «a planet in good health» so that this subject will be covered (important for the naturists).
In conclusion, it was a real pleasure to meet you and to have discovered you all. Good memory… and see you soon in Luxembourg.
Minutes: Dominique Dufour and Louis Cotard.